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[Mark]

I have a Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 quad cab long bed that I use for the beach. As all you of you big truck owners know, they aren't too good in sand as they weigh over 7000lbs and would sooner through sand than move the truck forward.

I am planning to put front and rear locking differentials on my truck to try to help traction on the sand. I was wondering if anybody out there has experience with locking differentials on a big heavy truck.

How big of a difference is it going to make?

I will greatly appreciate any information. Thanks,

Mark

[FlakMan]

I have a 99.5 Ford F250 SD diesel crew cab with an 8-ft bed. It's called the "Great White Beach Yacht". It weighes 7200#. I have a Detroit Locker in the rear and a Detroit Truetrac limited slip in the front. You can run a full locker in the front but it can be a problem when driving your truck in 4WD on slick highways.

What provided the best help was installing wider tires for better floatation. I run 33 x12.5x16.5 tires now on 9.75"x 16.5 wheels. Check your stock wheels if they are 7" x 17" then you should be able to run a 285/75/17 tire for better floatation. You really do not need a taller tire just one that is wider. A 33" tall tire is about as tall as you want. Any taller starts messing up your gearing and drivetrain loads.

With the combination of the lockers and these tires I have no fear!
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Ahh sand between my toes!

[Bryanccfshr]

Lockers effectively double your available traction splitting torque equally to each wheel on the axle. With open diffs if one tire is in a soft spot and the other is on a more packed spot the tire on the soft spot will spin. With the locker both tires will Rotate together and the tire with the most available traction will propel the vehicle.

I haighly recomend spending the money for lockers, a bonus for selectable lockers that you can unlock on the pavement, it will save you some tire on a heavy truck .

And as Flakman said increase the trie size a little. This decreases the surface pressure(PSI exerted on the sand) and will compensate for the truck wanting to dig. The easiest waytto increase the tire area is to air down. Then go up a tire size or two. I disagree that height doesn't matter. Tire height will increase surface area much more when aired soen than width will.

Tire width is good if you never have to let air out to make progress. The point is you want to increase the square inches of tire that are on the sand, and there are many ways to go about doing that.

I think something in a 285 width would be pefect for a 3/4 ton with lockers.

[FlakMan]

The major problem folks get into is when they put 35" tall or taller tires on trucks. Stock drivetrains are just not designed for this height of tire. A 4" or more lift is required. Folks rarely change the gearing. If you are running 35" tall tires you really need 4.10 gears. Drive shafts are now mis-alined causing stresses. Your hubs and bearings particularly up front see alot more stress. Fuel economy drops and handling suffers.

I have seen it done right - but it requires lots of $$$.
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Ahh sand between my toes!

[Bryanccfshr]

You won't see me arguing that point, I see to many trucks done wrong. For arguments sake increasing from 31 to 33" tires is all I recomend with out doing the regearing. That is a load increase of about 6% the number jumps all the way to 13% with 35' tires.
A sane increase in tire height will make the truck more capable. With the dodge I believe it comes with 32" diameter tires so the effect of running 33's would be even less.


But now we are talking more about trucks than fishing. A well prepared 4x4 will get us to our fishing spots and that's all we are trying o do here.
I will say the lockers will have more impact than tires alone. I run the same size tires as you(33x12.5) but in a truck that wieghs only 3500 pounds dry.

[esanborn]

Good points made by all, but I will weigh in on FlakMan's advice. Larger tires, specifically wider tires, will certainly be the most bang for the buck.

Where possible, the KISS principle should be applied. Lockers are cool tools, but are specialized off-road gear. My observation is that they are more prone to damage and breaking than (most) stock diffs, and they can be dangerous when applied ON road, regardless of conditions. I see more tricked-out rigs stuck and busted than their stock counterparts. Of course, it could be those zombie drivers believeing all the BS they were sold at the custom shop...

As to specing tire height with deflation in mind, I'd recommend against it. Deflation is inherently bad for tires. Excessive strain, flex and heat build-up on the tire, not to mention running the most vunerable part of the tire, the sidewall, as tread. I'm not sure when this practice became common advice, but it my opinion is that tire deflation should be avoided unless:

1) Using a tire designed to run at a wide PSI range, which usually means a flotation-type tire design anyway. In that case, you only need deflation in extreme conditions or an unbalanced load, like, um, a pickup without a load in the rear.

2) It's an emergency, and you're in loose sand, driving a vehicule not setup to float on sand.

I realise that there will likely be some well-meaning flogging as to the statement on Tire deflation, but I say opinion based upon experience. 12 years in Africa, including many trips in the Sahara desert. And yes, I did get stuck plently of times.
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Edward

[txslowpoke]

Hey Mark, Long time lurker here. THE guy you need to see is Larry Cook at CC Ring and Pinion/ Texas Overhead crane and Hoist,in Corpus off Navigation. Myself a longtime 4wheeler/ trucker , he will do ya right. he aint the cheapest $ wise but service for me has been top notch for the last 7 plus yrs. He is a diesel and 4x4 guy. Has a 68 dodge crewcab 4x4 with a 3208 cat, allison, 4spd brownie that would blow some minds, not to mention his toy- an m37 on 40's. For the old timers he used to run the Texas Toy back in the Hayday of Monster Trucks.
If ya decide to use him, tell him James with the hotshot truck refferred ya

[txslowpoke]

Esanborn- no disrespect intended here, but lockers are simple by design.( in theory common sense should apply. After any vehicle mod, drive cautiously till you are used to it.) Used in the range rovers and toyotas common to the African landscape. Thats why they perform so well. Limited slips etc wear out after 30-50 k miles.Lockers dont.
As far as "specialized equipment" goes, start dropppin in lower t-case gears , multiple tcase gears etc. I am with ya. Lockers aint special and perform awsome here in south Texas.

[Big Irv]

Lockers are great mod, but if you get stuck with one then you are really stuck. Of course the old school method is to weld the spider gears, this is not good going around corners in town on dry pavement but overall cheap and effective. As for running low pressure, it is important at slow speeds crawling over rocks otherwise you will puncture your tires, but it doesnt in my opinion give a whole lot of help on sand especially if you will be on the hard pack a lot. If you do start spinning you can apply the brake slightly and hope it loads the axle enough to get the other wheel spinning. If you have a manual Tranny you will need a hand throttle for this of course.

[1bgsub]

I will have to agree with flak, and a few of the other post. The best you can do for your truck is atleast put a locker in the rear. IF you have 3.73 gears the biggest tire I would suggest is a 33x12.50 all-terrain type. If you have 4.10 or lower I would go with 35x12.50 or something close to that size. And if you have a newer Dodge and want to run 35's all you need is 2.5 to 3 in suspension lift kit, dont go cheap and do a body lift you are asking for problems later down the road. I have delt with Larry Cook and he is one of the best in town & another one is Jamie at Pro Muffler also in Corpus. Jamie runs a big dodge crew cab short bed on 44's & play's in sand, mud & rocks. He knows his stuff & his prices a reasonable. I myself run a 3/4 ton sub with a 2.5 in lift with 35x12.50 BFG Mud Terrains with 4.10's & a locker in the rear with no problems.

[Bryanccfshr]

txslowpoke, and others who may be interested.
I am not a big Dodge fan but has anyone seen the new Power Wagon? Seems like a very nice rig. Dual selectable factory lockers, factory 33's. Factory Warn Winch, and a remote swaybar disconect.
I am a Toyota Guy but that is a nice factory package for a 3/4 ton truck.

[Mark]

Thanks for all the replies!

Once the warranties run out on my truck I do plan to put larger tires (not so big that I need a lift) and SELECTABLE locking differentials such as air lockers (ARB) or an electric locker. I am scared of the automatic lockers such as those made my Detroit and many other companies.

I knew some one with a rear detroit locker who had a rear tire blow out on the highway and their truck spun out of control. He claimed the locker was the reason as he had experienced rear blow outs before and said the truck definately handled weird when the tire blow on the vehicle with automatic lockers. Its arguable but I am staying away from them anyway as I put lots of miles on my truck in mountains and other places where I do not want to become a white cross on the side of the road.

I like the idea of having onboard air to control the differentials. I can use the air to fill up tires, mattresses, or blast a 140db horn, in addition to locking the differentials. Pretty cool...

I put a ton of highway miles on my truck often towing heavy loads. So my next question is

Does towing put any wear on the lockers when they are not locked? Or how about when the are locked? Except when pulling someone out of a hole, or dragging my camper down the beach, I don't think there would ever be a reason to engage the lockers while towing but I thought I'd ask.

Once again, Thanks very much...Mark

[esanborn]

[esanborn]

Mark,

Wear on lockers will be minimal when not engaged, but it depends upon the specific design.

Lockers should only be used when on loose surfaces, like snow, sand or mud. Generally only at slower speeds. Using lockers at any speed on pavement can result in an unstable vehicule - when turning.
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Edward

[Bryanccfshr]