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Johninaustin
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1109
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 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Help me diagnose my outboard problem. (last post) FIXED!! |
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Let's see if the brain trust can figure it out. 
2003 Honda 40hp four stroke. No previous issues.
Will not start unless the throttle is advanced in neutral to about 1500 rpm. Once you pull it back it dies at idle. Will not reach WOT, there is a large amount of off/on surging and running like a John Deere tractor. Between say, 1500 and 300 RPM it runs like it is brand new.
Checked everything from the fuel tank to the carb, I've replaced the fuel filters (there are two) and the fuel line/bulb.
Carbs were pulled, (Very easy to do on a Honda) no issues found, then replaced with new gaskets.
All three coil packs test out good. Although #1 appears to have a weaker spark. A new part is on the way for that one.
What do you guys think I'm missing?
Last edited by Johninaustin on Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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maxthelab
Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Kerrville, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Forgive me if I sound like Captain Obvious, but have you tried fresh fuel? Trust me, I know what a major PITA it is to dispose of old gas, but if it has sat for a while, especially without a stabilizer, the ethanol fuel attracts water and tends to cause problems, good luck, brother! |
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3967
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:21 am Post subject: |
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fuel pump....either dirty or has a small tear in it...
you cleaned the spark plugs as well, I'm assuming...
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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maxthelab
Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Kerrville, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Yep, could be the pump. Had the same issue 2 yrs ago with my 94 Johnson, tried all the steps listed above hoping to avoid replacing the pump, but it was inevitable, 400 some odd bucks (part only) later got her going. Had to come in from end of PA jetties with the trolling motor with an outgoing tide, not a good day. |
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ironmanstan
Exalted Ruler of Flour Bluff
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 12256
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Make sure your fuel line hasn't separated restricting fuel flow. That was my problem. Also sounds like a fuel pump diaphragm gone bad.
B
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3967
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm wrote: | fuel pump....either dirty or has a small tear in it...
you cleaned the spark plugs as well, I'm assuming...
becky |
I suppose I could have also told you one way to check the fuel pump....have some pump the bulb during your starting sequence...if pumping the bulb (vs. not pumping the bulb) causes an alteration of the symptoms mentioned, then check the fuel pump...
an "alteration" may be either it running/idling better, or flooding it out...in any event, that's when you check the fuel pump....
also, going back to spark, try to start it at night with no lights on around you, in the total darkness...you may see some bad grounds/loss of spark on something....basically, you shouldn't see anything if starting in the dark and electrical is ok....if you see any sparks, check your grounds and wires...something is shorting...
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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grasscutter
Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Posts: 435
Location: aransas pass
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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possible fuel pump diaphragm
Mine started with running fine and then would lose power. Sometimes hard to start. Other times fire right up. Then got worse. Pulled both diaphragms. Tear in one of them. This was on a Yamaha 150 2 stroke. |
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ironmanstan
Exalted Ruler of Flour Bluff
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 12256
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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So what was it?
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Tyler
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12865
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Johninaustin
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 1109
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| ironmanstan wrote: | | So what was it? |
No idea yet, new coil has not arrived and I cannot take the fuel pump apart. It takes a tamper resistant screwdriver bit I cannot find, probably have to order direct from Honda. 
All gas lines are new as is the bulb so that isn't the issue. The pickup tube in the tank is good too.
i DID take the lines off the fuel pump and give it a try. That resulted in gasoline on the garage ceiling, so I deduce that pump is just fine.  |
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3967
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Tyler wrote: | When we're done with this one we can start on my 1996 Evinrude 90  |
yeah, no kidding....I don't know what the heck is wrong with that one....I hate intermittent problems...
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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grasscutter
Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Posts: 435
Location: aransas pass
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm wrote: | | Tyler wrote: | | When we're done with this one we can start on my 1996 Evinrude 90 |
yeah, no kidding....I don't know what the heck is wrong with that one....I hate intermittent problems...
becky |
I have a Johnson 70 sitting in the shed that I replaced with the mercury 60 four stroke. Loved that Johnson, but it started running weird and became undependable. I had carbs rebuilt, put on a new powerpack and still it was a sometime great, sometimes not so great thing. I've always wanted to build a scooter. Maybe I'll slap that 70 on one some day. |
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CaptPatrick
Pony Mullet
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: |
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At 14yrs old, if they have never been replaced I'd suspect the fuel pumps to. Also, just because the fuel lines are new don't dismiss them as a problem. I've gotten broken brand new fuel lines.
Did the problem start then the parts change? Or the other way around?
This is going a little farther and may relate to the other problems asked about the OMC's. Outboards can get vacuum leaks. Reeds and the reed cage gasket along with the intake manifold can cause internment and hard start issues. These never get touched usually.if it will run enough just like a car, a few squirts of ether will help you find the leak.
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BayFly
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1722
Location: Austin/Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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How will the ether help find the leak?
| CaptPatrick wrote: | At 14yrs old, if they have never been replaced I'd suspect the fuel pumps to. Also, just because the fuel lines are new don't dismiss them as a problem. I've gotten broken brand new fuel lines.
Did the problem start then the parts change? Or the other way around?
This is going a little farther and may relate to the other problems asked about the OMC's. Outboards can get vacuum leaks. Reeds and the reed cage gasket along with the intake manifold can cause internment and hard start issues. These never get touched usually.if it will run enough just like a car, a few squirts of ether will help you find the leak. |
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CaptPatrick
Pony Mullet
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Either/starting fluid as a vacuum leak detector is probably becoming a lost art with computer controlled engines. As they can compensate for the extra air. Usually comes up with a motor idling real high. Carburetor can't do that. By gently squirting, and I mean gently,
at gasket and case seams while motor is running, the rpm will change. You can tell if the motor sucks some up.
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