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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3572
Location: Flour Bluff
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 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: I posit a theory for open discussion |
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Without openly stating the name of the dreaded organism, I have been kicking around a theory about what triggers the late summer "blooms" and I would like any feedback that can be offered.
It seems that whenever there is a large upwelling event from mid-May until around mid-July, and it is sufficient enough to lower the beachwater temps to the mid-70's or lower, the following September is normally "not good" along the beach.
In each of the following temperature time series, I have noted the time frame of the bloom, or the lack of one that year.
For your edification:
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
Again, this is just a theory.......
The one year that does not seem to really fit was 2010. There was pretty dramatic temperature drops, but no bloom. The two tropical storms of 2010 that were in this general vicinity (Hurricane Alex [6/24-7/02] and TS Bonnie [7/22-7/25]) were both well after the temp drops?
Any ideas from the "Holiday Inn Express" Oceanographers out there?
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:38 am Post subject: |
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nah, I think you're dead-on with your theory.....I've done the same basic research, and thought we were set for a big one last year and year before, but it didn't go off (thankfully)...despite having high levels of trichodesmium in the water (was thought to be the trigger)....
there's a paper from some researchers at A&M college station that makes a lot of sense; that the K-b alga is using the brevetoxin to osmoregulate....
http://geonews.tamu.edu/latestnews/815-researchers-explore-red-tide-toxin.html
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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Tyler
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12864
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| I hope you're wrong but thanks for the great graphs. It's hard not to link the two together from what you've presented. |
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Central Scrutinizer
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3572
Location: Flour Bluff
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Tyler wrote: | | I hope you're wrong but thanks for the great graphs. It's hard not to link the two together from what you've presented. |
I hope I'm wrong too. I would LOVE a huge heaping serving of Humble Pie come November and the surf fishing is simply on fire!!!  |
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deputydawg
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 1991
Location: Humble
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Very interesting stuff, thanks for putting it together and posting it. I hope your wrong though! I would hate to see it happen again!!! |
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Drake
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 1338
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Osmoregulate...... Word of the day! |
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Dirtylove
Horse Mullet
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 114
Location: Portland
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| I have no training in sciences but I would bet this is one of several variables that go into an equation. Unfortunately, that's probably how they describe colds and cancer. |
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cuzn dave
Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 465
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone researched the definitive historical records (aka the Sandifer Logs) on this matter?
Inquiring minds want to know...
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"If we don't leave any, there won't be any."
Capt. Billy
"Enjoy every sandwich" Warren Zevon |
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ironmanstan
Exalted Ruler of Flour Bluff
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 12256
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Drake wrote: | | Osmoregulate...... Word of the day! |
Send that one to Bill Oreilly.  First thing that came to my mind was 2 Amoeba's having sex or Osmoregulating  but what do I know about amoebas. Ok, so I looked up the definition. So I'm a little wrong, it's more like an Amoeba taking a dump. However the word covers a wide area. That will be enough of that.
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shorty
Member White Shrimper Boot Club
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 714
Location: Corpus
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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i also think whens there's changes like this ( cold water up-swells ) that the lil communist baby man O wars come out of every where,there the ones you cant see till its to late..and the other one if been trying to figure out is what
causes all the cabbage heads to wash ashore like they did a while back..temp drop ? salinity ? just a ritual ? is this related to the weed we get every year ?  |
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Tyler
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12864
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| shorty wrote: | i also think whens there's changes like this ( cold water up-swells ) that the lil communist baby man O wars come out of every where,there the ones you cant see till its to late..and the other one if been trying to figure out is what
causes all the cabbage heads to wash ashore like they did a while back..temp drop ? salinity ? just a ritual ? is this related to the weed we get every year ? |
I remember talking to Nickaway about this once but back in the late 1990's and early 2000's we used to see a lot more cabbage heads. My then young son, Bryan would get my knife out and dice and slice them until they looked like grandma's jello salad  After that I remember a long stretch where you hardly ever saw them at all and never like they used to be back then.
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Rebecca of Sunnybrookfarm
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ironmanstan wrote: | | However the word covers a wide area. That will be enough of that. |
LOL! an easy example is when you've been in the water too long and your hands "prune"....your cells are dumping water out....that's a form of osmoregulation...
(short-notes explanation from the link I posted) the K-b likes a specific salinity range (right at 35ppt), which means the salt level inside their cell is at 35ppt as well.....now, when they encounter a 1ppt change in water (34ppt) that causes a 14X change in their osmoregulation needs....
typically, osmoregulation is referred to regarding NaCl, or some other form of salt.....the thing with the K-b algae is that it uses brevetoxin as it's "salt" to osmoregulate.....so, when it encounters a 1ppt salinity drop, it makes 14X the normal amount of brevetoxin just to stay even....if it encounters a 2ppt salinity change, then it makes 28X (or something) the amount of brevetoxin to try to stay "balanced" osmotically.....
so when the K-b encounters water outside of it's salinity tolerance, it makes brevetoxin to the point where it bursts....problem is there's a fine line between really good conditions that cause them to multiply rapidly (but without "popping") and really good conditions that cause them to multiply, and then lyse, releasing all their brevetoxins....
oh, sorry, ppt stands for parts per thousand, which is a unit of dilution/concentration....and K-b is Karenia brevis, the dreaded organism that shall not be named...
and that's your "science" for the week.....study up, there will be a test Monday kids...
have a great weekend
becky
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| Central Scrutinizer wrote: | | Thanks for the Memories, Ranger Rick. |
| ziacatcher wrote: | | However I bet if you were fishing naked Ranger Rick would have a problem with that |
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speckled.trout
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 1190
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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run-off....
ST |
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fishinglady
Member White Shrimper Boot Club
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 857
Location: N. Padre Island
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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According to some info I read, the three important things for a bloom are :
sun, salinity, and nutrients. So, I would guess that perhaps the cold up-welling water current provides some nutrients that the algae likes; the sun we almost always have, and then salinity...which might be impacted by by rain events [tropical storms]. That's my "Holiday Inn" contribution to the debate. |
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Drake
Full Grown Flour Bluffian
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 1338
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: Upwelling |
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Per Dave's question, is there anyway to compare a larger sample of years? Based on this info I would say the beach could be ugly this summer and fall.
And again THANK YOU for the links and explanations relative to what I am seeing and the science behind it. I just wish I had paid more attention during biology. |
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