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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: More on Packery Project Changes |
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The City of CC's website on Friday posted the 139-page information packet for the September 29, 2009 Council Agenda Item 14. See http://www.cctexas.com/files/g40/DOC0925091.pdf It's huge and highly repetitive, but even so it leaves out significant background information, especially the April 2001 election at which the voters approved the Packery Project TIF, and the relevant parts of the GLO lease of the Project property requiring the maintenance of all Project improvements and the over-due subleasing development plan for concessions. If you have the time, you might read just pages 73 - 112, since that describes the ordinance and haphazardly proposes more or less immediately to construct some of the original recreational amenities, along with things never approved by the voters: $1,102,000 worth of improvements to Zahn Road and $100,000 worth of navigational aids west of S.H. 361.
Included in what the ordinance proposes to fund and build now are parking lots, sidewalks, overlooks and ADA ramps, all to the tune of $2, 175,000. The problem is that according to Exhibit F these particular parking lots would be next to each side of the channel, but well west of the jetties, and consequently not next to the foot of each ADA ramp. The parking lots from which the handicapped could actually reach the bottom of either ramp to ascend to a jetty aren't proposed to be funded at this time, and their future construction would be contingent on waiting indefinitely for the accumulation of more money in the TIF fund, not on the immediate sale of bonds to be paid off later by that accumulation. To put this in perspective, the cost to build the parking lots that would make the ADA ramps useful and therefore compliant with federal regulations, including roadways to each parking area, 10-foot walkways, lighting and landscaping, is estimated to be $1,114,048. If it were up to me, I'd build those ADA ramps and the parking lots that serve them and the jetties before I did anything else, using the money proposed to be applied instead to Zahn Road. Zahn Road improvements and additional navigational aids that aren't necessary unless you're speeding in the no-wake zone should await a public vote to expand the Project scope.
Also not included in this ordinance is the immediate funding and construction of the Packery Parks' restrooms (although restrooms are currently being constructed with another half a million dollars of TIF money at the seawall parking lot), pavilion, and administration and maintenance buildings. It's unclear from the ordinance's text if the park restrooms would include the showers still shown in the original engineering drawings.
It's also not clear if the maintenance fund was set aside initially with the full $4,000,000 described in the Packery TIF Info Sheet.
They're proposing to declare this issue an emergency and pass the ordinance on one reading. I'd appreciate some back-up when I face the Council and City staff about Item 14 next Tuesday. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!!
Last edited by The Trash Heap on Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bk005 Member White Shrimper Boot Club

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 511 Location: San Antonio :(
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe its just me, but it sure seem like alot of money to keep throwing at a silting in jetties and ramp, Whats wrong with just the jetties construnction and continual up keep, its already the easiest to fish jetties around. I know it was voted on way back when, but man there is alot of other things you could be spending MILLIONS on right now I would think.
Just rambling..... Im dumb on local politics. |
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fishinglady Member White Shrimper Boot Club
Joined: 05 Feb 2007 Posts: 857 Location: N. Padre Island
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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I intend to be at the meetings on Tuesday. This is just one more example of the City Council making sudden decisions that violate long and carefully thought out plans....and violate promises made.
The money in question is designated for ONLY the Packery channel area.....
The City submitted plans to the GLO in order to lease the state land south of the channel. Those plans call for PUBLIC improvements of bath house, gazebo, parking lots etc. to make a PUBLIC park for those who use the Packery channel recreational area.
Zahn Road improvements should come from City road funds.
There needs to be a large public presence there to remind the City Council
what the moeny is supposed to be spent on.
Where is Cast N Blast? |
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OutCast Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 459 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
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The Zahn road improvements seem right to me, as long as future construction doesn't destroy the intended improvements. It is the primary entrance to the N jetties.
The 100k for navigation aides is to vague to comment on.
As far as whats proposed for the 2,175k; thats what was promised minus the showers/restrooms ambiguity. I'm not sure that the initial plan hasn't been improved. It seems that some people are under the impression that a parking lot was going to be built and connected to the jetties in the sand, similiar to the lot at BHP. As far as ADA compliance, the packery jetties are the most accessible jetties in Texas and perhaps the USA. With HC parking in the new lots, lighting and widened walkways with ramps(if required) meets the intent of the law IMO.
What was voted on in the past was a conceptual long term plan (30 years). I haven't ever seen a plan that couldn't or shouldn't be improved upon. I am impressed w/ what has been done and is slotted to happen in the near future. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| fishinglady wrote: | I intend to be at the meetings on Tuesday. This is just one more example of the City Council making sudden decisions that violate long and carefully thought out plans....and violate promises made.
The money in question is designated for ONLY the Packery channel area.....
The City submitted plans to the GLO in order to lease the state land south of the channel. Those plans call for PUBLIC improvements of bath house, gazebo, parking lots etc. to make a PUBLIC park for those who use the Packery channel recreational area.
Zahn Road improvements should come from City road funds.
There needs to be a large public presence there to remind the City Council
what the moeny is supposed to be spent on.
Where is Cast N Blast? |
Thanks for your comments, fishinglady. If I may make a small correction, the City's lease of the Packery Project site is for lands primarily south of Zahn Road, not the channel. According to Exhibit J, some of the projected expenses for Zahn Road's improvements would include $300,000 for acquiring 0.84 acre of land outside the GLO lease. Pray the private landowner pays for that.
Hope you plan to express your feelings to the council. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| OutCast wrote: | The Zahn road improvements seem right to me, as long as future construction doesn't destroy the intended improvements. It is the primary entrance to the N jetties.
The 100k for navigation aides is to vague to comment on.
As far as whats proposed for the 2,175k; thats what was promised minus the showers/restrooms ambiguity. I'm not sure that the initial plan hasn't been improved. It seems that some people are under the impression that a parking lot was going to be built and connected to the jetties in the sand, similiar to the lot at BHP. As far as ADA compliance, the packery jetties are the most accessible jetties in Texas and perhaps the USA. With HC parking in the new lots, lighting and widened walkways with ramps(if required) meets the intent of the law IMO.
What was voted on in the past was a conceptual long term plan (30 years). I haven't ever seen a plan that couldn't or shouldn't be improved upon. I am impressed w/ what has been done and is slotted to happen in the near future. |
OutCast, no one's saying Zahn Road couldn't use improvements; it's just that for several reasons doing them now is untimely. As Jacks off fishing wrote on Nick's board: | Quote: | | With all of the heavy concrete trucks and other heavy equipment which will be going down that road when they start building houses, the road will have to be reworked anyway. It seems to me that it would be better to do minimum maintenance until they are past the construction phase and then rebuild the road once. | On top of that, there has been no voter approval for the Zahn improvements, and doing them now jumps them in front of other Project amenities the voters and the council approved years ago.
As you say, the navigational aides proposed in the ordinance aren't described in enough detail to generate comment, so why should the council be asked to approve them? Likewise, they don't have voter approval.
I agree that if the jetty parking lots were built complete with access roads, that would be an improvement over the lots minimally described in the Packery TIF Info Sheet and the existing City Code. However, those parking lot access roads have been shown in several of the "Packery Channel Six-Pack Improvements" engineering drawings since late 2001 and early 2002.
I disagree that the ramps would be ADA accessible unless and until the handicapped can reach them from their vehicles; w/o a hard surface to park on, wheelchairs cannot reach the ramps. I'll remind everyone that the ambulance and gurney dispatched to the north jetty when that boat capsized a while back couldn't reach the jetty across the soft sand, and the gurneys had to be ferried in the back of a 4WD PU and lifted by hand on and off the jetty. So much for Packery's wonderful jetty access.
The Packery Project was a 20-year plan, and 7 tax years are already gone w/o meaningful progress on the jetty parks. If we'd issue the bonds and build all the parks amenities immediately, the expected increase in taxes would come sooner than if we eked out a little bit here and a little bit there, and inflation wouldn't bite such a big hole in our budget. Best of all, if we can build and pay off the project before the 2022 TIF expiration date, the tax increment can go back into the general fund and be spent sooner on projects, like street repairs, all over the city.
What the staff intends instead is that the TIF be milked as a slush fund for any add-on project it can think up within the TIF Zone until 2022: | Quote: | | These projects may include projects to acquire, construct, reconstruct, or install public works, facilities, or sites or other public improvements, including landscaping, utilities, streets, street lights, water and sewer facilities, pedestrian malls and walkways, parks, flood and drainage facilities, or parking facilities, but not including educational facilities. | Say hello to the slippery slope, again. _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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OutCast Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 459 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Johnny, not sure I understand the specifics you are going to present to the council. So it would be hard to stand w/ you. I think your beef is in the past, in that the vote happened many years ago (TIF funding/zone) and although the priorities weren't realized until 2005 (island action group capital improvements priorities report).
Phase 4 & 7 IMO, are a waste of money currently.
I hope phase 7 on the north side doesn't happen according to the plan. Those proposed parking areas will be high maintenance forever. It should be drastically reduced in size on the south side as well or relocated. This would eliminate ADA access from the sand (phase 4) completely.
Phase 2 addresses beach access (Zahn road), again there are specifics there that I dont like personnally(street lights) however in general the improvements should facillitate faster developement(tax base in the TIF zone) and increase tourism. Also phase 2 provides addequate access for persons w/ disabillities in that the parking area will provide spaces to park and curb access to the jetty walkway extensions and overlooks. So, the only area still moving slowly is the south side of Packery(ADA parking and road), unless you consider the seawall parking area w/ ADA access enough for now.
I didn't realise the boundaries of the packery project (extended to ICW) earlier (was under the assumption it ended at SH361), so I would agree that navigational aides should extend for safety reasons throughout the length of the channel (the cost seems a little high though and no specifics).
Government action is slow and information is often vague. It always has been and always will be. Pay as you go is the right way IMO. When the TIF runs out in 2022, lets hope what is built with the monies brings new business/residents and continues to attract tourists.
I agree that Zahn road will be damaged by heavy traffic flow; unless it is properly constructed and maintained. With the developers paying for 50% of the construction they should have started last week. Is it an emergency, only if you are tired of waiting for improvements and growth.
Why would improving Zahn road require additional voter approval?
Any developement willing to pay half on the southside?
Considering theres no tax increase in the TIF zone(normal tax monies being taxed and spent for that specific area until 2022 and not going to the general fund) or the rest of the city/county; Whats the beef specifically about, priorities?
I've always been willing to fight a good fight, I'm just not sure what your fighting for specifically?
Thanks again for helping me know whats going on and posting the docs to review. I still feel they are headed in the right direction. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| OutCast wrote: | Johnny, not sure I understand the specifics you are going to present to the council. So it would be hard to stand w/ you. I think your beef is in the past, in that the vote happened many years ago (TIF funding/zone) and although the priorities weren't realized until 2005 (island action group capital improvements priorities report).
Phase 4 & 7 IMO, are a waste of money currently.
I hope phase 7 on the north side doesn't happen according to the plan. Those proposed parking areas will be high maintenance forever. It should be drastically reduced in size on the south side as well or relocated. This would eliminate ADA access from the sand (phase 4) completely.
Phase 2 addresses beach access (Zahn road), again there are specifics there that I dont like personnally(street lights) however in general the improvements should facillitate faster developement(tax base in the TIF zone) and increase tourism. Also phase 2 provides addequate access for persons w/ disabillities in that the parking area will provide spaces to park and curb access to the jetty walkway extensions and overlooks. So, the only area still moving slowly is the south side of Packery(ADA parking and road), unless you consider the seawall parking area w/ ADA access enough for now.
I didn't realise the boundaries of the packery project (extended to ICW) earlier (was under the assumption it ended at SH361), so I would agree that navigational aides should extend for safety reasons throughout the length of the channel (the cost seems a little high though and no specifics).
Government action is slow and information is often vague. It always has been and always will be. Pay as you go is the right way IMO. When the TIF runs out in 2022, lets hope what is built with the monies brings new business/residents and continues to attract tourists.
I agree that Zahn road will be damaged by heavy traffic flow; unless it is properly constructed and maintained. With the developers paying for 50% of the construction they should have started last week. Is it an emergency, only if you are tired of waiting for improvements and growth.
Why would improving Zahn road require additional voter approval?
Any developement willing to pay half on the southside?
Considering theres no tax increase in the TIF zone(normal tax monies being taxed and spent for that specific area until 2022 and not going to the general fund) or the rest of the city/county; Whats the beef specifically about, priorities?
I've always been willing to fight a good fight, I'm just not sure what your fighting for specifically?
Thanks again for helping me know whats going on and posting the docs to review. I still feel they are headed in the right direction. |
Not wanting to take up a lot of my, the council's and this board's time, I intend on concentrating on changing the order of priority of amenity construction to start with the essentials: a hard-surfaced parking lot at the base of each ADA access ramp to each of the jetties. The sizes of those were established years ago, but still appear appropriate to fit the intent of the OBA to replace beach access lost due to the project and to serve the other amenities cited in the TIF Info Sheet. Best of all, those parking lots will at last provide free access to the jetties ; no more window stickers and citations.
I agree the jetty access parking lots should be relocated/reoriented/re-engineered to put them on higher ground and to better protect the revetments from storm tide flanking. This would also settle the disagreement between the GLO and the City over locating improved parking away from the beach to protect the lots themselves from the sort of storm damage that occured at the Padre Balli parking lot.
My main beef is that all the delay and the shuffling of priorities have been caused by the failure to issue the bonds and finish everything that was originally promised as soon as the Corps' construction got out of the way. Having done that, the tax increment would have reached its full potential already, and we wouldn't be having an open-ended project onto which the City will continue to try to attach things without voter approval until 2022. There is no voter mandate for Zahn Road improvements, undescribed navigational aides, and endless other items, all of which interfere with completion of the amenities the voters were promised. I call that a bait and switch tactic, and will ask that it cease.  _________________ The Trash Heap Has Spoken!
NNYYAAAHH!!! |
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OutCast Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 459 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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I dont think the city is trying anything funny. They may be mixing issues/improvements between the Mustang-Padre Island Plan and the Packery Project/ TIF to leverage money. If they had to pay for the Zahn road improvements on their own later, would it be worth a million dollar input from developers?
I do think that some of the money will be wasted in these phases of developement, but overall the improvements are beneficial. It won't be perfect. But the developement at Tortuga dunes is the biggest bang for the buck currently in developement. The other project phases don't offer a significant near term return on investment capital. The priorities are not based on changing local resident traffic/patterns but on enhancing future developement.
I do agree w/ you that the priorities are out of whack from the 2005 report. But not living in the TIF zone would prevent me from infringing on the rights of those property owners to determine their own priorities.
I don't want to see more bonds issued than are absolutely necessary. Are their developers that want to purchase these bonds now?
I think the Phase 2 portion adequately reflects the promises of the TIF as well as those of the MPIP. The Phase 4 portion, is as you say an open- ended project(until approval of parking areas is completed).
I wish you luck, you have picked a hard fight since the city has adopted the pay as you go plan. |
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The Trash Heap Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1932 Location: Corpus Christi
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OutCast Flour Bluffian in training
Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 459 Location: Corpus Christi
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:35 am Post subject: |
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So now its about increasing property values to pay off the TIF sooner.
Clearly adding new developed property w/in the TIF zone would be a quicker payoff while possibly adding to current property values.
The build it and they will come theory only works in the movies. The beach is the ONLY necessity to draw tourists, but it doesn't help bring new developement/business when issues like this delay the growth.
If Zahn road is not a priority for developement of the area I don't know what is, maybe it's an overlook,bathhouse,pavillion or parking lot that you can't get to. If Zahn is only patched up image how many times that money will be wasted. |
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fishinglady Member White Shrimper Boot Club
Joined: 05 Feb 2007 Posts: 857 Location: N. Padre Island
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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The best tourist draw would be to make access to Pakery jetties easier, especially for families with children so they could walk the length of the jetties, watch the turtles swimming along the sides, and see the dolphins and birds at the end.
This would be achieved by building the parking lots & restrooms promised on the south side, but build right behind the dunes, not in front. Also, something needs to be done to maintain an easily drivable path to the jetties. Currently, there is often so much soft sand at the end of both access roads, north and south, that tourists are afraid to drive through it, or they try and get stuck.
Improving Zahn now will only have it be destroyed by all the heavy equipment coming and going in the construction of Tortuga Dunes. |
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Uncle D Full Grown Flour Bluffian

Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1645 Location: Third Coast
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| fishinglady wrote: |
Improving Zahn now will only have it be destroyed by all the heavy equipment coming and going in the construction of Tortuga Dunes. |
Can we all say concrete trucks.
Your right Nita. People do get stuck at the jetties and the promised ADA friendly access with the other amenities would have seen an increase in tourism and property values. |
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