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So Tx Plains wind farm
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The Trash Heap
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1932
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Focus Reply with quote

Those having difficulty seeing the problem are focusing in the wrong places.

The cell tower situation is a good example. When cell phones proliferated exponentially, no one was prepared for a rapid deployment of cell towers everywhere and environmental agencies had to begin regulating after-the-fact. It turned out that there were several things happening with the birds. The guy wire issue was a significant one with a couple of solutions. Birds that can see the tower itself a long way off may actually focus their eyes on that distant object and thereby miss focusing on the wires until they're right on top of them. The FWS began recommending that, instead of every cell company building its own towers, they share cell towers and if possible lease transceiver space on other sorts of existing towers. They also recommended using monopole towers w/o any guy wires at all.

Another thing being missed in this thread is that most bird strikes occur under conditions of poor visibility. The worst case is at night and in foggy conditions. The aviation warning lights atop the taller towers seem to attract, then confuse, birds. I saw this occur one foggy night at a well location southeast of Falfurrias; every horizontal piece of the drilling rig was littered with little bodies, and a coot fell at our feet on the drilling floor.

Thus, my prediction is that when the proper research is finally conducted on the wind farms, it will be discovered that the wind turbine blades are deadlier to birds when they aren't moving, especially at night and in a fog, than they are in broad daylight and rotating at the max. Of course, if they've already built beau-coup farms in harm's way at billions of dollars a pop, the birds will just be SOL. Sad

I'm not saying NIMBY, I'm saying fools rush in. We can and should take the time to find the right locations before we invest gigabucks and commit ourselves to easily avoidable mayhem. There may be other downsides we haven't even guessed at yet.
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iflyabeech
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Joined: 09 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Focus Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
Those having difficulty seeing the problem are focusing in the wrong places.


I usually agree with you Trash Heap, and I agree about the focus thing being a factor with the little wires, but I have to disagree with you on the bird issue.

We build highways -then coyotes and deer get on them and hit by cars and die. Should we not have highways?

I think that sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees!
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The Trash Heap
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you knew you might minimize the harm of any technology, why wouldn't you take the time to look for ways to do that? There are necessary evils and unnecessary evils. Wouldn't you prefer to know which is which before making a choice?

The sin is in not caring what damage we may do before we do it. It's ironic having to explain that since previous energy technologies led to global warming and now we're trying to get out the mess with this new one.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." --- Pogo
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iflyabeech
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
. . . . . that since previous energy technologies led to global warming . . . . .


OIC There's were we differ! Smile

I invite you to become enlightened.

http://globalwarminglies.com/
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The Trash Heap
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give up on that propaganda. Even EXXON has stopped funding it.
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iflyabeech
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
Give up on that propaganda. Even EXXON has stopped funding it.


I don't think so. Temperatures have been fluctuating up and down since the beginning of time. The liberal media and algore are the propaganda machines. History is not propaganda!
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subsailor
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so... how the fishing lately.....lol
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iflyabeech
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

subsailor wrote:
so... how the fishing lately.....lol

Hehe..all work here no fish!! Only 3 more days of this work mess until I get to go fishin! ha
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
If you knew you might minimize the harm of any technology, why wouldn't you take the time to look for ways to do that? There are necessary evils and unnecessary evils. Wouldn't you prefer to know which is which before making a choice?

The sin is in not caring what damage we may do before we do it. It's ironic having to explain that since previous energy technologies led to global warming and now we're trying to get out the mess with this new one.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." --- Pogo


It doesn't seem to matter how much time is taken, there is always some group, or person out there that has an agenda they feel is not being met. It seems that no matter how many site assements were done on some of my past projects, there was always some person that felt MORe should be done. We live in a real world though that depends on technology and energy, and obviously no one is willing to give that up. I can guarantee you that prior to these windmills going up, certain environmental reports (NEPA, Phase II, etc..) had to be prepared. It's not like some random person decided to set these things up over the weekend.

so what's the answer? It seems to me you're not a fan of oil companies by your posts, and you also seem to think the windmill farms aren't a good idea...where does that leave us?
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Big Ed
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Big John"]

So windfarms are clean, efficient and cheap. Over 20% of San Antonio energy is now being produced using windfarms, and the number is climbing.

quote]

Big John,
Where did you get these numbers? CPS website says that CPS "hopes" to have 15% of of it's power from renewable sources by 2020. Current production is a small percentage of that 15% goal for the future.
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Lost Cajun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
It's ironic having to explain that since previous energy technologies led to global warming and now we're trying to get out the mess with this new one.


Sorry Johnny, I don't believe any scientific data has been put forth linking Global Warming to "previous energy technologies", only propaganda by extremist organizations who want us to quit using energy altogether. And by political organizations who are looking to gain election advantages.

Let's all be honest and say we agree that the globe is warming. Then let's all work together to find out why, not jump to convient popular conclusions.
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Lost Cajun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trash Heap wrote:
If you knew you might minimize the harm of any technology, why wouldn't you take the time to look for ways to do that? There are necessary evils and unnecessary evils. Wouldn't you prefer to know which is which before making a choice?


I agree. And since we have decades of data on this issue lets take the practicle approach and see if they have caused significant avoidable harm. If they haven't let's drop it, support their proliferation and build them out as quickly as possible.
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Big John
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Big Ed"]
Big John wrote:


So windfarms are clean, efficient and cheap. Over 20% of San Antonio energy is now being produced using windfarms, and the number is climbing.

quote]

Big John,
Where did you get these numbers? CPS website says that CPS "hopes" to have 15% of of it's power from renewable sources by 2020. Current production is a small percentage of that 15% goal for the future.


I saw it one of their newsletters. Maybe it was hopes to by some date. I don't have that newsletter anymore as it goes out with the envelope the bill comes in. Laughing
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topdog15
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I saw it one of their newsletters. Maybe it was hopes to by some date. I don't have that newsletter anymore as it goes out with the envelope the bill comes in


Another mystery statistic, heh?

I agree w/ Johnny on this one. Maybe its b/c we both chose careers that required we be educated on peer reviewed literature researched and written by knowledgable scientists rather than simply trust whatever is said on the television or by the politicians. We are a reactive society that rushes into things and then struggles to deal w/ the consequences. By being more proactive and attempting to fully understand these situations before acting upon them, we may limit the damage incurred and cause less harm to the natural world.
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iflyabeech
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I question the motives behind these so-called "scientists!" They pay too much attention themselves to politics and less attention to science.

I believe we are a society who is too worried about hurting anything to actually help anything.
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