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This is funny how, exactly?
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fishinglady
Member White Shrimper Boot Club


Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 857
Location: N. Padre Island

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about what others find on the beach, but usually when I find trash, it is either mostly beer bottles/cans or around beer bottles/cans. We all know that alcohol impairs judgement, especially excessive alcohol consumption.
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Crazyhorse
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Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 135
Location: Olney Texas

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't posted in a long time but this is one subject that I will address.

The real problems, and this is only my opinion, are too many people and a lack of respect for others and for nature. Neither of those know race/ethnic or educational background or socio-economic status.

People on the whole are only concerned about themselves and the moment.

It is why so much private land state wide has been closed to everyone. I simply do not see things changing, except for the worse.

Again, this is just my opinion.
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TexasFlyGuy
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Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazyhorse wrote:
The real problems, and this is only my opinion, are too many people and a lack of respect for others and for nature. Neither of those know race/ethnic or educational background or socio-economic status.


Change begins in the individual. 2 people start a movement. But you cannot change a community's behavior in a short period of time. Changing our own habits takes time, a plan, and perseverance. Changing the habits of society takes a lot more. It requires a concerted effort in schools, civic orgs, and government. It is possible, but the will and determination must be in place to bring all influence to bear. You teach the young, you shame and induce the adults, and you punish the wicked.

TX geography presents its own enforcement challenges. Officials are spread thin. You have to empower more stakeholders than just law enforcement to participate in enforcement (Operation Game Thief is a good example) and folks simply have to start shaming and rebuking wrong-doing in public.

It all starts with the individuals who care.

See Edmund Burke quote in my sig line.

Does it create some uncomfortable moments? Sure it does, but not as bad as people fear. But just walking up to offenders and picking their trash up and carrying it to a trash can while giving them "the eye" and muttering under your breath sends the message. Nobody's going to attack you for picking up their trash for them, but it does make them feel pretty darned awkward...ashamed. Taking pictures with the cell phone and emailing them to the proper jurisdiction with a complaint is a pretty low risk way of protesting bad behavior. Verbal assault is probably not your best option, and very few should attempt that when out-numbered! I have gotten by with it all of my adult life, but people tell me I scare folks...and I don't do it unless the offense is egregious and I'm sure I can at least get out of the trouble I may stir up. So I don't advise direct confrontation if you're alone, or if there's a large group of offenders and just a couple of you. But that is the rare exception! Far more often, the offender can be singled out and we are not alone. Just say what's on your mind, folks. It works far better than you might think.
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"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson
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FoldCatOne
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Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 1159
Location: Kerrville

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you are describing is a city on it's way down leading to being a Detroit. The citizens and city fathers need to wake up or the all mighty tourist dollar will go elsewhere and that would be sad. All it would take would be a 10% plunge in tourism - how many businesses can stand a 10% hit to their bottom line???
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TexasFlyGuy
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Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoldCatOne wrote:
What you are describing is a city on it's way down leading to being a Detroit. The citizens and city fathers need to wake up or the all mighty tourist dollar will go elsewhere and that would be sad. All it would take would be a 10% plunge in tourism - how many businesses can stand a 10% hit to their bottom line???


That's the "hook" to getting everyone mobilized. BUT, I'm of the opinion (after being here about 6 months) that there is a very significant chunk of the local business and leadership community that doesn't give a rip about the tourism economy. They take it for granted and believe it cannot change just due to geographic realities. They aren't pro-growth to be sure! So even this might not get the sort of traction one might expect.
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"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson
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noskunks
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishinglady wrote:
Don't blame "big government" for people's behavior. The behavior is taught [or not] by parents.


I have to agree with fishing lady, The government we have now is a symptom and consequence of what society has become, not the other way around.

You don't realize how bad the problem is here until you move away for a while. I moved back and was pretty appalled at how filthy some of the citizens of this city are.

One of the first things I saw when I moved back was a car at a stoplight on access and staples, open the door and set their trash on the street. Confused
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TexasFlyGuy
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Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noskunks wrote:
fishinglady wrote:
Don't blame "big government" for people's behavior. The behavior is taught [or not] by parents.


I have to agree with fishing lady, The government we have now is a symptom and consequence of what society has become, not the other way around.

You don't realize how bad the problem is here until you move away for a while. I moved back and was pretty appalled at how filthy some of the citizens of this city are.

One of the first things I saw when I moved back was a car at a stoplight on access and staples, open the door and set their trash on the street. Confused


In general, I agree that gov't is usually a symptom of prevailing attitudes in societies with legitimate representative government (what most folks call "democracy"). On the other hand, I also know that leadership culture quickly and thoroughly translates down to the very bottom rung of every organization...more so with the negative aspects than the positive ones. In general, if folks think they can get away with stuff, they'll do it pretty soon. So I'd have to say that it works both ways. We truly get the gov't we deserve, but "the folks" also take their behavioral cues from leadership.
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"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson
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c-dawg47



Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 3
Location: granbury,tx.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am new to this forum but I have aked on TKF many times why I never see orange jump suits picking up litter. Im glad to hear atleast some community service is spent on cleaning up but I have never seen it.
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fishinglady
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Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 857
Location: N. Padre Island

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think the local city/county government is to blame in that they don't make much effort to enforce some of the laws, such as littering, keeping property up to code, keeping animals licensed and under control, etc. This lack of enforcement is reflected in the rotting buildings, littered landscape, and hordes of loose animals running the neighborhoods, as well as in the potholed streets. In other places where there is more enforcement, the landscape is better.
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Big John
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was born and raised in Corpus Christi, but also lived several other cities growing up. Additionally, my wife was also raised in Corpus.

I'm am half ashamed to admit that's my hometown, as the reputation is not good. The nickname of Sparkling City by the Sea doesn't really fit. More aptly Corpus should be called the Dirty City by the Sea.

It is the combination of high rates of poverty, and a social environment that fosters both entitlement and apathy towards anything that didn't directly affect them. There is also no motivation to have anything nice, our maintain your property, because someone else will either steal your nice stuff or hit it with graffiti. These areas also have high crime rates, especially property crimes. This is a liberal mindset and is prominent across the city of Corpus Christi. It is at plague levels there. It's not unique to Corpus, just much more prevelant.
Here in San Antonio, if you drive into the poorer, and more liberal districts, you see more liter, along with few people who upkeep their own belongings and property. Same in Houston, Dallas, etc. If you go out of state and visit large, political persuasion that shall not be mentioned run cities, you find the same thing. I was amazed by the amount of trash in the streets and alleys in New York. In all these areas you find higher levels of crime, and poverty. Growing up in one of Corpus' poorest neighborhoods, I have lived it, and seen how this lifestyle and apathy towards community is passed from generation to generation.

However, if you drive into the more conservative districts, even those that are less than wealthy, you find, for the most parts, clean streets, upkept homes and yards, and pride in the community. You feel safe for yourself and your property. You don't have to worry about shutting the garage while mowing the back yard fearing someone will empty it out. These areas are becoming more and more scarce, and the liberal plight spreads across the land.

It's a damn shame, really.
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Central Scrutinizer
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 3583
Location: Flour Bluff

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big John wrote:
...These areas are becoming more and more scarce, and the liberal plight spreads across the land.


So, what you are basically saying is, "Thanks for nothing ... Nancy Pelosi, the "Obama-phone Lady, and Harry Reid". ???? Cool

If the shoe fits, Confused Confused

[I defy anyone here who disagrees with this thread to point out a single major US City under political persuasion that shall not be mentioned leadership which is not an absolute armpit.]

And hey Nelda, you keep pushing the "It's Corpus CHRISTI theme" while you want to collect that nickle for the plastic bag that nobody here seems to know how to fill up with trash after it leaves the Circle-K parking lot..... [and yes, I know it ain't Circle-K no more... just add it on to my $7.00 street 'usage fee' City Council... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes ]
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Oil Field Trash II
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Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishinglady wrote:
Yes, I think the local city/county government is to blame in that they don't make much effort to enforce some of the laws, such as littering, keeping property up to code, keeping animals licensed and under control, etc. This lack of enforcement is reflected in the rotting buildings, littered landscape, and hordes of loose animals running the neighborhoods, as well as in the potholed streets. In other places where there is more enforcement, the landscape is better.


all good points. you can't blame the government on the laziness of a city, but you can certainly blame them for not enforcing existing regulations.

I *do not* understand how people do not realize the negative economic property impact of having trash every where you look.
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fishinglady
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Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 857
Location: N. Padre Island

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is one for you..... Austin is a "liberal political persuasion that shall not be mentioned" city. BUT, it is one of the cleanest cities I have seen. Yes, I have driven through the poorer parts of Austin, but even there, there is much less litter/trash, and the houses are more maintained, and there aren't potholes in the streets and grass growing two feet high from cracks in curbs and gutters. There aren't cars parked in yards or packs of dogs running loose. Why not? Because the city enforces its codes and laws.

Here's a thought for you: In most of the poorer parts of towns, the houses/building are owned by people other than those who live in them. Those landlords have chosen not to repair broken steps/window, not to paint peeling exteriors, not to replaced damaged shingles. Why? Because you get more profit when you don't pay for needed repairs. And, if a city doesn't force these landlords to maintain the property, the landlords don't do so. Absentee landlords..... out of sight, out of mind. So, you expect the renter to pay out of their pockets to fix up the landlord's property or to care for a yard when the landlord won't pay to repaint or fix leaky pipes?
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TexasFlyGuy
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Joined: 15 Apr 2013
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Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishinglady wrote:
Here is one for you..... Austin is a "liberal political persuasion that shall not be mentioned" city. BUT, it is one of the cleanest cities I have seen. Yes, I have driven through the poorer parts of Austin, but even there, there is much less litter/trash, and the houses are more maintained, and there aren't potholes in the streets and grass growing two feet high from cracks in curbs and gutters. There aren't cars parked in yards or packs of dogs running loose. Why not? Because the city enforces its codes and laws.

Here's a thought for you: In most of the poorer parts of towns, the houses/building are owned by people other than those who live in them. Those landlords have chosen not to repair broken steps/window, not to paint peeling exteriors, not to replaced damaged shingles. Why? Because you get more profit when you don't pay for needed repairs. And, if a city doesn't force these landlords to maintain the property, the landlords don't do so. Absentee landlords..... out of sight, out of mind. So, you expect the renter to pay out of their pockets to fix up the landlord's property or to care for a yard when the landlord won't pay to repaint or fix leaky pipes?


And many of those largest landlords are also the largest property tax payers to the city. In other words, city officials work for them, because they are the "major stakeholders" about whom local officials generally care the most. Follow the $$$. It's a vicious cycle of predation, depredation, apathy, and self-destruction. ALL societies deal with this natural TENDENCY. It is the DUTY of gov't officials to guard against and counter-balance such deleterious tendencies. That's why we enact ordinances and laws. But the rule of law has gone the way of the dinosaur in America today. It's every man, woman, and child for himself...and it ain't wrong until you get caught.

There are a LOT of cities in Texas and the Southwest with predominantly political persuasion that shall not be mentioned leadership that do NOT have nearly the blight problem that CC does. But there is also something to the point that conservatives and libertarians BOTH tend to place a high value on self-improvement, self-respect, and respect for others. These values are VISIBLE in every aspect of life. It's also apparent when they are absent.

My wife and I retired and moved here as a "base" from which to find our permanent home in the coastal region. I'm a native Texan and she's a naturalized citizen who came to the USA from Germany. We're both disabled vets. We've been here less than 6 months and already decided we have to look to the smaller communities along the coast and a bit inland...away from the trash and crime of CC. I also chair the board of directors of a corporation headquartered here, and we've decided to move it out of here as well.
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"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson


Last edited by TexasFlyGuy on Fri May 17, 2013 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pinsfish
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Location: Bluff

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad that they just don't care. Let it look like that when they show up and watch them complain. Important that we continue to do our part though.
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